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March 08, 2007

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Simon

"Others were concerned about the 'homogenous' principle, i.e. the churches grow best when they are trying to reach a particular group of people rather than build a community for all and sundry."

There's an underlying assumption there that "churches grow best" is exactly equivalent to "churches are best". It's a very common assumption, but it really ought to be challenged.

Sean

Not sure I quite understand you. Do you mean to challenge the assumption that growing churches are the best kind of churches?

If so, fair enough, in a sense. But could you be more specific? I would agree that we should be wary of simple numbers games. But I would equally say that if a church is not growing, we should ask ourselves why.

michael jensen

Well, Sean, we agree again. IN fact, the 39 Articles explicitly speaks of different liturgies being used in different contexts... it's a 'd'uh' as far as I am concerned.

David

Interesting post - we are having similar discussions over here at Ridley. A few reflections on how we think Fresh Expressions are Anglican.

Authority structures and the wider Church - the leadership of the FE can choose to make that clear and visible... that they are under a Bishop, an Archdeacon, a Diocese... part of the Church of England, part of the Anglican Communion, part of the 'catholic' Church (with a small C)

The way in which they interpret Scripture - Scripture, Tradition and Reason.

Structure of services. Common Worship already recognises we don't use the same words but it encourages us to adhere to a liturgical structure... that can apply and be distinctly Anglican just as much as an FE as anywhere else.

Importance of the Sacraments - Baptism and Communion.

I personally find this whole homogenous/heterogenous idea to be a red-herring. No church is totally heterogenous. Even discounting the issue of location for your average church and noting people maybe of different age structures, we are usually far from representative of all the 'people groups' that in our parish. Culture, style of worship, language, and much more can all homogenise the church in different ways. Why hold FE churches to a standard that inherited models of church have never fulfilled?

Sean

thanks all, esp. David. I very much agree with you.

At Soul Survivor, they introduce many of their festivals now with the words, "Welcome to Soul Survivor. We are part of the Church of England." I love that!

Steve Croft made the point that the diocese and its bishop is the basic ecclesiological unit of the C of E and not the parish. That is, if a church is in communion with and under the authority of its diocesan bishop then it is authentically Anglican. Cathedrals (most of them) are a good example of non-parochial but very Anglican churches!

Not sure I agree re. Scripture, trad and reason though. That is a post-Enlightenment fabrication/distortion of Hooker!

jen

interesting post
I think that if churches met people where they are and befriend them then they have the opportunity to invite them to church on Sundays

Suzy

I'm really interested in the fresh expressions idea and will take a closer look me thinks. I guess the point is that Church needs to be a community and can grow more easily where there are good friendships and where community already exists.
In times past when transport was a little more challenging then I guess proximity was the main factor that bound people together. However these days with a more mobile society community tends to be based on other stuff like shared interests etc.
So for example there are 4 Christians as part of the crew at a Ceroc night that I go to. I think it would be exciting to try a fresh expression of church in this scenario!
I just think that we cannot and should not expect people to come to us in our Christian ghettos. I have become so uncomfortable in church so why on earth should I expect someone else of my generation who hasn't been 'churched' to turn up and embrace the idea?!

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